My theory on the origin of the Pegge name and the connection

Peak 2 Group is a subgroup of our English branch which is defined by the values 20-22 for DYS413

Re: My theory on the origin of the Pegge name and the connec

Postby John1 » Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:39 pm

fantastic score, well done, but no I hadn't 'tis a closed group to which I have no access
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Re: My theory on the origin of the Pegge name and the connec

Postby aileen » Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:34 am

And PEK, PEEK, PECCO, PECHE et al have all been claimed by the PEACH group

http://www.thepeaches.com/genealogy/
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Re: My theory on the origin of the Pegge name and the connec

Postby John1 » Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:45 am

the Peachey name grab was pointed out by Aileen a couple of years ago. The Peach/Peachy literature doesn't seem to recognise there is a Norman group in Southern east Anglia and a very distinct and senior group in Mercia which has clear pre-Conquest roots in the Earls of Alfreton . Maybe the move away from Peche was a result of the the two very separate Peche clans coming up against each other at court and needing to differentiate themselves. Or a separation from the de Pecco's/Peche of Rodsley and the Peche of Wormleighton who appear to have a common ancestry. The split seems to have arisen in the civil wars around the reign of Edward II. Peche of Wormleighton carried the same Arms as Bishop Richard de Pecco (son of Alfreton) and was a senior military figure under Ed III including Constable of Dover castle, in the same geography as the other Peche group, hence the conflation of the lines.
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Re: My theory on the origin of the Pegge name and the connec

Postby John1 » Mon Feb 13, 2017 6:45 am

Index to the 1379 Richard ii referes to a John Pegg, interchangeable with Pecche and Pecke. So it is pretty clear in the 1300's Pegg was interchangeable with Peche, not yet absolute proof but we can keep building the case;

Richard ii post mortum 1379.jpg


the Mavesyn were serious aristos from Staffordshire, so local, and their village was Mavesyn Ridware, a place we have been looking at for the source of the Ridgways;

http://www.npgprints.com/image/1135975/ ... -mauveysin

Given this link to such a significant family, was John Pegg/Peche the father of Thomas Pegg of the 1416 Bothe marriage (they are in the same league) Is this John Pegg the John Peek on the 1433 Derbyshire gentry list? it's just about possible.
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Re: My theory on the origin of the Pegge name and the connec

Postby John1 » Wed Mar 08, 2017 4:26 am

group email from John Pegg 07 March 2017

Dear All,
This is just a quick note intended to draw together the most compelling route I can of a direct male line of descent from now to the 11th century. This is a very long mailing list but is intended to get to all dna relatives who have a common ancestor in the time period I am looking at (except Yacine who is a few centuries earlier). If you don’t want to be on the distribution list let me know, although I’m not sure if there will be more emails like this anyway.

There are gaps and assumptions it is a working hypothesis that needs to be tested by filling gaps and checking original documents.

It’s pretty clear that multiple paper trails and dna links put most of us back to John Pegg of Shirley. This guy is at the top of the Charlton Tree dated 1508, this date is not his birth it is a will he witnessed and would put his birth probably earlier than 1480. This is a Pegg buried in the chancel at Shirley, so a man of means at that time it is reasonable to assume that status would make him a senior member of the local gentry.

Prior to this we have no Shirley specific Pegg references. However in the Meredith papers the Shirley/Osmaston Peggs claim association/descent from a Pegg that married into the Bothe of Sawley family. This must be Thomas Pegge who married Anne Bothe in 1416 (not Christopher as Edward Pegge asserts). This marriage is significant, associating the Pegg family of Shirley with the family of Roger Bothe one of the richest families in England, giving Thomas Pegge an Earl, a Bishop and an Archbishop as brothers in law.

We know at this time spellings were somewhat unreliable, even with surnames, and whilst Thomas occurs in a few documents associated with Bothe there is no listing of him as a member of the gentry of Derbyshire in the list of 1433 which he surely must have been. There are however a number of Peeks (John, Richard, Thomas and William). We know the name Peek and the name Peche are synonymous around this period, so my guess is Thomas Pegg 1416 is Thomas Peek 1433 listed with his sons/cousins and maybe father. We also know that the name Pegge is transposed with Peche in the 14th century (1323 patent rolls attached). And again 1377 -1399 absolute date needs finding.

Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem: Volume 15, Richard II


It there ore seems quite credible that the Pegge’s of Shirley were Peche. Locally the Peche were based at Sharrow Hall, records of these Peche disappear in the 1400’s as the Pegge’s begin to appear in the person of John Pegge 1508 of Shirley. John Pegge 1508 is, according to Charlton, well established and one of a number of Pegg’s some styled Sir. (Robert, Nicholas and Thomas) So we have an established Peche family disappearing as an established Pegge family appear and both names are synonymous in official documentation.

The Peche were established in the area early. With Sir Ralph Peche (b1160-ish???) marrying into the Boylestone family, having a son Nicholas (note the Christian name above). This line then appears to have daughtered out in favour of the Ridwares by Matilda Peche in the next generation. Later the Peche are back in town with a Thomas Peche witnessing in Bradley in 1345 so maybe they retained some territory. This Thomas Peche (Knighthood I think is implied) might well be the son of John Peche shown here, as how many Knights called Thomas Peche could there have been in the Midlands at the time whose descendants claimed ownership of Sharrow Hall;

And again we see the Peche names Thomas, Richard, Nicholas and John. The descendants of this family certainly claim Sharrow as their own in Debretts.

So Pegge is mainly Peche (and Peek in 1433). The Peche of Sharrow were descendants of Bishop Robert elected 1121 so probably born 1070-1080-ish and it seems likely that he is now our earliest progenitor. So where does Robert come from. Some think he is Norman. His son Richard, so I assume he too, was styled “De Pecco” (of the Peak) and there is an association with the name De Pecco and the Earls of Alfreton. Richard De Pecco amongst other things held the Castle of the Peak and that of Bolsover, and had his “Main messuage” at Castelton, so a local lad in many ways. With no apparent French/Norman dna hits it seems likely Robert was pre-Norman English, and the dna implies a Roman arrival. So to me the Alfreton route looks best but Richard de Pecco being Robert Peche’s son makes this link less solid than I had thought.

Where now;

1 find more evidence about the Peche/Pegg connection
2 Find more anchors for the Peche of Sharrow to the Peche of Wormleighton (test the Thomas theory)
3 Find the original documents I have used the Victorian transcriptions of to see how these guys really wrote the names.

Beware as you dig around for centuries the East Anglian (Norman) Peachey family have been claiming all Peche as their own. Beware if you see anything referring to Hamon Peche, he is a Peachey. For now I’m assuming we are the Peche of Sharrow Hall, our connection to the Wormleighton Peche tree is via Sir Thomas Peche all needs proving. I think the Milward, Maxfield Miller branches may be from a single illegitimate son of Thomas or more likely his father John…..

Whilst I am content with this solution for the line at the moment I welcome alternatives to discuss. I won’t be speculating any further on where or why the Ridgway, Day, Smith, Wells, Ferguson, Miller, Maxfield, Bonsall, Underwood etc families span off from the Peche/Pegg line. It is clear there was a big split around 1300AD maybe just one illegitimate son who spawned the outrageously wealthy Millward dynasty and most of the others… you lot can have your own individual research nightmares dealing with that.
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Re: My theory on the origin of the Pegge name and the connec

Postby John1 » Mon Jun 05, 2017 4:30 am

follow up email looking at the origins of Bishop Robert Peche.

170605_Peche Peverell email.pdf
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